Logistics and dealing with courier companies

[William]

This is one of our most Frequently Asked Questions and you can read our Dagga Private Clubs document here.
But let’s accept it that opening a Dagga Private Club is not without some risk. What we are doing is leading by example and creating these solutions together.

This is your chance to be heard. So please tell us, what logistics do you need for your Dagga Private club and which couriers should be avoided?

[William]

The Courier Guy seems pretty good. Good service and reasonable rates on their prepaid online accounts.
Up to you how open you want to be with them about what you are shipping. Have heard of the rare bust if the cops come knocking looking for specific dealers’ packages. No insurance.

DHL and Aramex are not good. Below average service and frequently intercept parcels. No insurance.

Please try to make your courier company’s life as easy as possible. Be a low maintenance client who discreetly packages orders.

[Joanne Parry]

I agree re The Courier Guy. My ex used to work in a pub that the owner of Courier Guy frequented, he is fully aware that at least 80% of his business is ‘green’ and he has no issue with it, as long as we are discreet and package properly to hide smells and shapes that would be a dead giveaway to anyone snooping.

[johann]

William wrote:

The Courier Guy seems pretty good. Good service and reasonable rates on their prepaid online accounts.
Up to you how open you want to be with them about what you are shipping. Have heard of the rare bust if the cops come knocking looking for specific dealers’ packages. No insurance.

DHL and Aramex are not good. Below average service and frequently intercept parcels. No insurance.

Please try to make your courier company’s life as easy as possible. Be a low maintenance client who discreetly packages orders.

Quote

Spot on.. Courier Guy offers a cash account which means you walk in, pay the R85 and send the parcel with some fake senders details.

[littigator]

I’ve used Courier Guy amongst others for regular business and have also found them quick easy to use and very helpful. I’ll be trying them out for sure.

What does anyone think about the envelopes you get from the vending machines I’ve seen at some service stations or supermarkets. Standard R100 envelope, stick whatever you want in it with the delivery address and post it in the box type service? Also Pick n Pay do a similar service, I think supported by Aramex. Seems like a discreet anonymous way of getting it sent.

[William]

Aramex and Postnet are well known for intercepting parcels. Those supermarket drop off boxes are nice but don’t expect good service. TCG is on average more affordable and collect from your door.
I recommend that you ask your courier for blank waybills as they usually print your address info on them. May not want to share that info with your clients.

[sean.alexander.za]

Stupid question potentially but just something I was curious about.

My understanding is that Aramex/PostNet/Others might have intercepted weed parcels in the past because weed was illegal completely, but since the concourt ruling how has that changed if at all.

I mean if you mail to yourself/family member/etc. surely the parcel is also regarded as private and would be subject to search only under certain conditions, and even if they find weed, surely it is your private property or should be considered as such? Unless bagged/packaged for sale then I can understand something but if you literally send a small non-commercial looking sakkie/container to yourself, that should not be confiscated.

What would happen if you decided to send weed to yourself, got it taken, then decided to ask PM @ Schindlers or someone else to send a strongly worded letter threatening charges of theft unless something changes. I don’t know but part of the problem is of course public perception of it being an issue. What happens if a persons meds are confiscated. Is that not considered a violation of rights because of some technicality of what a “private space” actually is (Does a parcel fall under that definition). Just wondered if any dialogue has happened with these guys thats all. Again, if someone has their cancer meds taken the potential stink that one can raise get people to notice and bad PR is never good for a company.

[William]

Their attitude haven’t really changed and dealing hasn’t stopped. So don’t be surprised if intercepted.

It’s your word vs their understanding of the law. Maybe we shouldn’t speculate on their behalf. Call and ask them. Would be great to hear what they say. The Schindlers angle seems a realistic approach for those with the means and appetite for the fight, but may not guarantee that you will walk away with your courier account still open afterwards. The couriers may also just be in a difficult place.

Why not support those couriers who are 420 friendly’ish rather than trying to convert those who aren’t?!

[Tom Kelly]

Hi all,
thought i would add my 2 cents worth here.
My understanding of this situation is that if a package is intercepted, then the package, is in movement and therefore could be seen as traffiking or supplying of goods, and therefore would be playing into the cops hands as supply is the only real offence that they can realistically win in court. this is why i see the haze club strategy falling down. if you take the liberty of supplying the goods that have been grown on someones behalf, that part of the process could be seen as intent to supply. And if the goods were to be picked up from the grow facility, then there would be no provision of goods, just growing on behalf of someone, which i still believe to be constitutionally sound, as no person in RSA can NOT have access to the rights provided for in the constitution. so to grow or maintain someones grow should be entirely legal. as soon as you provide a service to supply the goods, your taking the law on differently.
we are currently writing our own framework to take to the cops here in Hout Bay, as we have quite a small and understaffed satelite station that cant cope with the shit going on anyway, let alone continue arresting people for crimes that dont exist anymore. we would like to be able to remove tik from our area as that is one of the major sources of crime here.
we are in talks with some of the merchants, and would like to be able to offer the community a way of making money without the need for tik. if we can find a way of allowing people to sell ganja in small batches within the confines of hout bay, this could eliminate tik from the area. if the merchants could safely go about their grows without the worry of police, this could be an earner safer than the tik. if the police were keen on really reducing crime in the area, as their mandate provides, then to remove tik in any way possible would be the best move.
presently we have several shebeens open in IY and Hangberg and if these units were allowed to also sell small amounts of weed then surely the violence and crime associated with the shebeens and tik would slowly evaporate. Stoners dont rape, fight and kill and it is not a source of domestic abuse. these are the real crimes we wish to reduce here. If anything, then i can see hot dog & slaap chips stands moving into business with the shebeens!
We are confident that the SAPS will be for it, and we are not too concerned with the views of the rich, conservative and mostly racist neighbourhood groups, as they are generally ignorant of any hardships real people face in their day to day lives, & the SAPS are aware. the SAPS are who we must convince, as they are the front line lads, and if we can as a community can reduce crime through this initiative, then its a job well done.
If the tik merts could grow weed, make a little less money and keep out of jail, the guys would be keen it seems.
I am also trying to convince the cops that if they were to make a move on such a bold initiative then it could lead to them being promoted to national departments of ganja that will no doubt have to be formed due to regulation anyway. we are a small village with a lot of issues from lack of fishing rights to bullshit from the DA regarding housing and safety. Fuck the half arsed part time local politicians, let the cops make the decision as they are ultimately responsible.
To start worrying about transportation seems a bit of a waste of time to me. after living in Amsterdam for many years, i see that the deliveries arent made in vans or delivery services. they just appear! For years people have been moving product all around the country with little worry. we particularly like extractions for this as bulk is what gets you caught. if you extracted a kg of indoor you could put the result in an A4 size envelope with little to no smell or suspicion. small packages moved around on foot or in vehicles close to the outlet would be first prize. In the future, certain areas would be renowned for the local ganja supply and locals would be able to make the most out of this through employment within the industry, and associated services and paraphernilia.
but i am going off on one now!
in a nutshell i believe that most areas have differing needs and requiremnts and should generally have a plan made for them specifically, with the assistance & support of local SAPS. if its put together in a way that shows what results could come from the allowance of ganja being sold discreetly, i believe it will be self fulfilling and very difficult for the cops to say no.
That said, theres alot of dickhead cops so best be careful!

hope i didnt go off on too much of a tangent & derail the thread!

lekker luck yall!

[William]

Great comments Tom.
My only questions about The Haze Club are…
Do you join then wait 4 months to get your weed or do you join and start getting weed straight away?
What if your members are not based in the immediate area and require delivery outside of the province?

The cops will likely continue arresting growers, dealers and consumers as long as we fulfill their arrest quotas.
The cops are the tool, but not the solution.

[Tom Kelly]

Hi william,
cant comment on the haze club to be honest, i know as much as you do.
I dont know anyone who has utilised their services or intends to. the blurb seems to point to a solution in terms of timescale that can be openly abused, and what recourse would you have? Can you really grow that much, that well? what happens if there is power outages and the schedule for flowring disrupted and made to hermy out in super shock? Is there any insurance available for it should the grow unit burn down?what would happen then? who would be liable? their service to me, would probably offer more questions than answers. we strive constantly for compliance and for trust from both sides of a business contract. there are too many variables about growing for someone, that if not properly dealt with, can mean an expensive end to a short business life. If the outcomes and timescales are not defined, how can you define a value?
To be able to grow for people should be a legal venture but as we are still dealing with the SAPS attitudes and their sometimes blind disregard for the concourt outcome. We have frameworks for a grow enterprise that can deal with all of the issues we believe. Dont want to give too much away but have already spoken to QVK from DQ central regarding it last year. I think any enterprise in this regard has to start locally, and then hopefully, through co ordination with other operations, create a national framework where people can use a chain of grow operations as a sort of bank. if i am paying someone to grow for instance a white widow stock strain that is grown under compliant exacting climates that are replicated around the country, you could possibly build up a balance of ganja and hopefully, legally remove that balance from any of the national grow offices. so for instance, if i have a grow contract in cape town, but am in durban and run out of bud, i can make a withdrawal form the durban branch! They are not providing, merely guarding a share of my bud balance, that i may pick up at anytime. ( I am sure there is some legal framework in the financial sector that may apply to this idea. ) I am still paying for a service, not an item. The fact that that the service is a ganja bank should hopefully hold water & be of little concern to SAPS! However this national bank idea is granted, frought with legal issues, but we have good minds amongst us who can see us through it!

Education is key at the moment and for every enterprise we try to kick off there must be a basis of legal arguement that is sound.
as everyone now knows, the only really illegal thing about ganja now is the supply thereof. meaning that almost any other enterprise can be legit as long as your not selling ganja. Simple.
If stark ayres can sell ganja growing kits and freedom farms sell ganja soil, then the precedent is being set. we must find innovative ways to utilise the present laws to our advantage and normalise it slowly and legally with education on what our intentions are.
For instance, when we first spoke to the SAPS regarding our enterprises, the first attitude was “you cant make money from ganja, finish and klaar.” however, we rebutted with the fact that there are plenty of people making legal money for consulting on percieved illegal matters.
If i cant maintain a grow for someone who hasnt the ability to do so, maybe because theyre disabled, maybe they have no greenfingers, must they suffer further? Thats not the spirit of the decison. The spirit is in the allowance to be able to do what you want in private. what is the difference between that and someone who sells bongs? I dont see bong sellers being arrested ? what about rizlas and even legal advice from lawyers regarding getting your illegal ganja arrest? these are both enterprises that make money from percieved illegal activities. If i cant offer cannabis consulting, then why can criminal defence lawyers do it?
its not an illegal action in itself, but it could be construed as being part of an illegal activity with their thought process. As we told the cops, selling weed is illegal, we are not selling weed. we are consulting in a way that a criminal lawyer would. You wouldnt say a criminal lawyer is a criminal, so why would a ganja consultant be illegal? On what fucking grounds and on what charge exactly? ( i didnt actually swear at them, that was for dramatization purposes!)
Silence!
So we must educate in an intelligent way, the SAPS and also any other local groups that may have any ignorant hatred towards the plant its uses and users.
In my present experience, the most interest i get from people regarding ganja is from the older retired crowd who have disposable income and are looking for the health benefits associated with ganja, not to get high AF!
this demographic is steadily growing and is forming a good defense for the plant for us. Read about how the american market is split up demographically. its not your typical stoner looking to get high, its people who have spent years on opiates or pain relief that have created more health issues than they solve, usually taken in tandem with 3 to 10 other pharmaceuticals that help counter act the bad effects of the previous ones!
These demographics are also often to be found on the CPF board or neighbourhood watch groups or ratepayers associations. The tide turns slowly for us and acceptance isnt too far off. we must continue to strive for innovative ways to educate and keep our standards high in the industry. self regulation wont work well here i dont think as the avalanche of CBD/hemp oil bullshit continues. Unless you yourself have grown a proper cbd rich plant, extracted correctly, dont even bother saying what you have is CBD. Just Fuck off. its complete miseducation & hoodwinking of the masses to say that cbd is the answer. Nobody knows the 100% tested answer, but we do know about entourage effects and we do know about snake oil salesmen! we know there are hundreds of cannabinoids and types thereof and they are being investigated and tested by professionals that will one day hopefully completely replace all pharmaceutical companies.
(while i am on the Pharma trip, i would just like to add that if one looks at the side effects page commonly & legally required, to be added to prescriptions, you can see a huge array of side effects that users may suffer from. these risks far out weigh any ganja side effects and i wonder if this danger will be added to any thought process that happens with regard to ganja use in the workplace. if you want to test for ganja as you percieve it will change the competence of the user, then your compliant systemic due dilligence, will have to say that all prescription drugs need to be tested for and if anyone is found with any pharmaceutical drugs in their system, not duly authorised by prescription, then surely they are as guilty, if not more so than legal cannabis users. My experience of boardrooms and their morbid inhabitants is that they are probably on more ilicit substances than their staff! the test would have to be applied fairly to all members of staff, including directors. so if you are on prescriptions you wont be able to work unless the prescription says its has no ill side effects, which even with paracetamol, could be tricky. One could easily pull a victimisation card and win if the company had not properly & fairly thought out & related its policy. play the dickheads at their own game, with their own bullshit laws!
another example could be that if you told your boss you had taken a paracetamol in the morning, and they said its fine , what can go wrong with a paracetamol?! & if you come to work and fuck something up you could use the excuse that the side effects of the paracetamol were to blame for the fuck up and you had been told to work, even though you made the company aware you had taken the paracetamol, who would be libel for any financial fallout from the fuck up?? the worker who made the fuck up, or the company for allowing a person to work with possible side effects from the pill??? I would say the company myself , as they gave permission to carry on working knowing full well the possible risks involved. cant be negilgence on workers part as he made full disclosure, therefore the company would have to assume responsibility for the fallout. I am not sure of the complete veracity of this statement, so i stand to be corrected by a more educated person, however , you get the drift!)

One of our company goals is the complete destruction of bullshit pharma companies making billions on the discomfort of others off of processed & Synthesised natural products. the plant has the power to heal a lot of issues and also has the power to put that healing responsibility within the hands of those that need it at a reasonable price, in their own comfortable way. people are benefiting financially already from absolute bullshit and lies and the SAPS seem soley concerned with victimising growers. if we can turn the worm to see that they cant use their bullshit excuses for not letting our enterprises blossom, as when those same excuses are used against other industries, they become irrelevant! Dont fight with anger, fight with reason!

We must be strong , fight fire with mo Fyah and best not to have any wraps or shrooms around if the saps do knock on the door!

also taking up last point about growing in a shop, not sure it would be viable unless the shop was a private space, or possibly if the owner of said plants had placed them there, in a rented private grow cubicle as it were, for his own private stash, much like upmarket whisky bars allow patrons a locker to stash their expensive whisky and cigars. with a glass front to view the grow, it could look beautiful! would still need to rent a drying room and a trimmer on top though!!

phew man, sorry for long winded rant, one of those mornings brothers!!

look forward to the hotbox show tonight!!

Lekker Luck yall!!

[Author]

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